諾獎得主Andre Geim專訪丨如何讓科研更有趣？（TBSI聯合訪談）
在2017深圳國際石墨烯高峰論壇期間，材料人與清華-伯克利深圳學院（微信號： tbsi2014）對諾獎得主Ander Geim教授進行了聯合訪談。
Ander Geim教授于2010年因發現石墨烯獲得諾貝爾物理學獎，然后石墨烯迅速成為物理學和材料科學的熱門話題。在連續四屆深圳國際石墨烯高峰論壇期間，Ander Geim都作為嘉賓出席并做主題報告，以下為訪談視頻、主要英文內容和翻譯。
訪談稿英文參考
You know, first there was graphene, and then after graphene has become so popular, people including myself already in 2005, one year after the Nobel Prize acknowledge paper, we published papers claiming that graphene is not alone. It has many sisters, brothers, cousins, and whatever distance relatives. So, as I said, we call this conference "Graphene", but graphene doesn't mean any more graphene itself.?It's a shorthand for all other 2-dimensional materials.?
And in addition, what happened during the last three years is, you can combine those materials, like a deck of cards, you can combine them in making new materials, which are impossible in nature. And we can make them in the lot. At a moment, industrial interest is focusing on graphene, because it has been the first. And in addition, companies are making money out of graphene.?So there are not enough industrialists or entrepreneurs on this planet, even to try yet, what other 2-dimensional materials can deliver. And hetero-structures which I mentioned, currently is the subject of fundamental research.?
What we can learn from this one, at the moment is that there are at least, ten, twenty years in future before we can start doing anything about this one. But this is the nature of science, it's not like a computer program, you wrote a smart codes, and in two, three years, you have become a multi-billionaire. In real world, behind dotcom world, it always takes a long time, 20, 30, 50 years, before a fundamental discovery brings consumer products.?
But in case of graphene, it's happening really fast.?No one, 10 years ago, saw that today there would be hundreds of companies around the world making money out of graphene. It's incredibly quick. Probably because graphene unlike other discoveries, delivers a lot and it is very versatile material.
This reminds me, just what I've said, I was sitting with a colleague, another scientist who came from the US, a very distinguished scientist. And he asked me the question.
“I looked through your talk, and what's the connection between the first part of the talk and the second part of the talk? They seem to be completely different subjects.”
And I replied "the connection is myself". I try to make research interesting to venture, into areas where I was not an expert a few years ago. So if you dig in the same place, it's very hard to compete. In graphene there are so many people involved, it's very hard to compete, even for myself.?
But?if you go somewhere outside, there are still places where you'll find first time discovery, first time phenomena.?And it's kind of hard, psychologically to learn a new subject, but my brain is not dead yet, I'd like to keep myself as agile as the students who have their brain trying to make life lasting experience of learning new things. So, that's interesting, because you don't want to get bored all the time doing the same thing, like manual worker on the factory doing the same stuff. If you focus on the same subject, in a sense it's easy to do, but then you are routine. And?I don't want routine.
（圖為Andre Geim教授在2017深圳國際石墨烯高峰論壇上發言）
Of course, your installed scientific equipment is important, is expensive, and you don't try to damage any equipment during those experiments. So this was a kind of experiment, which started with a very simple question, similar question I'm trying to answer, still these days, what happens with water if it's put into very high magnetic fields?
There is a phenomena, no-magnet water, people say, if you put a small magnet next to your water tap, there would be no scale on your kettle, and there would be no scale on your hot water pipe. So magnetic field removes the scale. This is people's claim, you can buy those descaling devices in households, goods shops, etc. No one still knows how it works, even whether it works. So, it was an attempt to answer this question, a scientific question. Whether something special there is about water? If you tried small fields and they work, then you're obviously asking whether this phenomena becomes more pronounced in high magnetic field.
So I try to answer a question, "what happens with water in high magnetic field?" And then I found it unexpectedly for myself and my professional colleagues that water levitates, and then after that it has become fun, what else can levitate? You can put vegetables, strawberries, tomatoes, piece of sugar, anything, what you want, in water it levitates, so eventually I put a frog and a hamster inside magnetic field, and it works as well.
This time for the first time, I have a glimpse of your city, which is a looking as impressive now as Hong Kong, with all skyscrapers and etc. And of course, I know that it's one of the fastest growing areas in China, in terms of economic output and so on. ?So it's probably not the last time I'm visiting Shenzhen, maybe one day I'll go to your city center to business center and industrial district and see a little bit more of your beautiful city.?I like the climate actually of this city. Because it's similar to the climate where I was born.?It's also warm and humid climate which I got used to. I was born in Sochi Black Sea coast Mediterranean kind of climate. So the climate is good. So you can expect me to come a few more times to this city, maybe as often as once a year.?
訪談稿中文參考
石墨烯在它問世后的一年，也就是2005年，逐漸變的很流行。在諾貝爾獎頒發之后，包括我在內的學者們發文章表示石墨烯并不是唯一。石墨烯還有很多兄弟姐妹，它們或多或少存在著聯系。所以正如我說，這次會議我們所談的“石墨烯”，不僅僅是石墨烯自身。它是所有二維材料的統稱。
此外，近三年發生的故事是，你可以將石墨烯等材料像一疊撲克牌一樣在其他材料里面復合，這在自然界中是不可能實現的。現在我們可以實現很多這樣的復合。這段時間工業界的興趣正集中在石墨烯上，那些公司還可以利用石墨烯賺錢。目前在這個星球上，還沒有足夠多的實業家或者企業家去嘗試其他二維材料可以實現什么。
我們可以從這里學到的是，此刻我們距離能在這方面有所作為還有十年或者二十年的時間。但是這是科學的自然規律，它不像電腦程序，你可以寫一個智能代碼，在兩三年之后你可就以變成億萬富翁。在互聯網之外的真實的世界中，基礎科研發現帶來消費類產品一般要花費20年、30年甚至50年的時間。
?但是對于石墨烯來說，這一切發生的太快了。沒人可以在10年前說現在有這么多的公司可以依靠石墨烯賺錢。也許是因為石墨烯不像其他的發現，它是多功能材料，帶給我們太多的東西。
這提醒了我，如我所說，我和一個同事坐在一起，他是來自英國的一個非常杰出的科學家。他問了我這個問題。
“我聽了您整個報告，第一部分和第二部分的聯系是什么？它們好像完全是不同的主題。”
然后我回答道“聯系就是我自己”。我嘗試將研究興趣轉向我近幾年沒有涉足過的領域，想去探險。如果你要在相同領域工作的話，競爭是很激烈的。有如此多的人研究石墨烯方面相關的課題，即便是我，也要面臨嚴峻的競爭。
如果你去石墨烯之外的領域，那里依然會有很多地方你可以第一個得到某種發現、觀察到某中現象。從心理學的角度，學習新的科目有點難，但是我的大腦還沒死，我嘗試保持和我的學生一樣敏捷，他們的大腦讓生命持續體驗新東西。所以這很有趣，因為你并不想所有的時間干一件事而變得無趣，像一個工廠里的體力勞動者做著同樣的事。如果你一直專注于一個學科，一定程度上這很容易，但是你會變得程式化。我不想程式化。
當然，你安裝的科學設備是非常重要，非常昂貴的，所以你必須確保在整個實驗過程中儀器不受損壞。這是一類由非常簡單的問題引發的實驗，和我要回答的問題類似，直到這些天，（我還在想）如果將水放入強磁場會水發生什么反應？
生活中有一個現象，對于無磁性的水，如果你在你的水龍頭旁放置一個小磁鐵，在你的水壺上將不會有水銹，同時在你的熱水管上也不會有水銹，所以是強磁場消除了水銹。你能夠在家中，商店等買到那些除銹設備，這是人們的訴求。但人們一直不知道它是如何工作的，甚至是否能夠工作。所以，這是一個需要努力回答的問題，一個科學問題。對于水，是否有什么特殊的問題存在？如果在低磁場中這個奏效了，那么你理所當然的就會想這一現象在高磁場中是否會更加明顯。
所以我嘗試回答一個問題，“水在強磁場中會發生什么？”之后水懸浮對我和我的同事來說是個不可思議的發現，此后的研究變得非常有趣，還有什么可以懸浮呢？你可以將例如蔬菜，草莓，西紅柿，方糖等任何你想到的物品放置在水中讓其懸浮，最終，我放了一只青蛙和一只倉鼠在強磁場中而且都成功了。
這是我第一次對深圳進行了大概的了解，給我的感覺和香港很像，有很多的摩天大樓。當然，在經濟等方面，深圳都是中國目前發展最快的區域之一。這應該不是我最后一次來深圳，或許有一天我有機會去市中心、商業中心、工業區多看一下，多了解一下這個美麗的城市。我特別喜歡這里的氣候，這與我出生地索契黑海沿岸的氣候非常相似。那里是溫暖潮濕的地中海型氣候，我早已習慣，非常棒。所以我會經常來深圳，或許一年一次。
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